God Is Eternal, Infinity Is A Paradox

God Is Eternal, Infinity Is A Paradox

        When debating atheists, there are often times encounters with a person who believes there was some overall cause of the Universe’s creation, and there could possibly be some kind of intelligent cause, or a force that made everything. Usually, they will say some kind of energy caused everything. But then they would say something else caused that energy force to exist, and whatever caused that force to exist had something that caused it to exist as well; and so on until you go on to infinity. This is the kind of logic some use against the idea of God creating everything. They say something must have created God.

        What happens with this kind of argumentation is that often times a non-atheist will argue back at an atheist and say, then who created the force that created God? The atheist says it was something else, and this argument would go on for infinity if it were possible. This would be a waste of time, and some people actually believe that the Universe is infinite both with its history and future direction. They would say matter has always existed and always will. This is with the view of the scientific rule in mind which states, “Matter cannot be created nor destroyed.” Surely, matter cannot be created by anything within Creation, but s omething outside of it created all matter.

        Many atheists and people who do not like the idea of an all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere present God will still want to believe that everything that exists has a cause. They say the Universe exists, therefore it had a cause. They apply this to God and say that God exists, therefore God had a cause. This is the wrong idea.

        Just because something exists does not mean it had a cause. The true understanding of all Creation is that whatever has a beginning has a cause. The Universe began, therefore it had a cause. So, an animal had a beginning; it had a cause. A tree had a beginning; it had a cause. An asteroid had a beginning; it had a cause and so on. All of these things have something that caused them to exist such as a seed being planted, animals mating and birthing another animal, and an asteroid breaking off of something and entering gravitational fields, and thus becoming asteroids. But God did not have a beginning, therefore He had no cause. Nothing caused God to exist because He exists Eternally outside of all Creation: matter, energy, time. God is timeless and eternal because God in fact created time.

        Infinity cannot exist and God is not infinite. God is timeless and eternal. Timelessness and eternality are a different concept than infinity. God very well could make something go on in one direction infinitely, but the idea of an infinite universe is a paradox. For instance, If we had an infinite number of events that have occured and we are in one spot on the number line, or timeline, then the next event we cause will be added onto that exact same amount yet that number will have not changed one bit and would still remain infinite. No extra actions or any actions taken away would have changed anything. It remains infinite. There is no infinity + 1, or an infinity – 1. No matter what, everything remains infinite. The best understanding of the infinity paradox is discussed in detail with a philosophical and mathematical concept called “Hilbert’s Hotel” presented by German mathematician David Hilbert (1862–1943). Logical Paradoxes, a website that deals with such issues explains Hilbert’s Hotel,

Hilbert’s Hotel is a (hypothetical) hotel with an infinite number of rooms, each one of which is occupied. The hotel gives rise to a paradox: the hotel is full, and yet it has vacancies.

That the hotel is full is obvious. It has an infinite number of rooms, and an infinite of guests; every room is occupied. That the hotel has vacancies is a little more difficult to demonstrate.

Suppose that a new visitor arrives; can he be accommodated? At first it seems that he cannot, but then the hotel clerk has an idea: He moves the guest in Room 1 to Room 2, and the guest in Room 2 to Room 3, and so on. Every guest is moved to the next room along.

For every guest, in every room, there is another room into which they can be moved. This leaves Room 1 vacant for the new visitor. Although the hotel is full, then, the new guest can be accommodated in Room 1.

It is not only one new guest that can be accommodated; in fact, Hilbert’s Hotel has an infinite number of vacancies. By moving every guest to the room the number of which is double the number of their current room, all of the odd numbered rooms can be vacated for new guests. There are, of course, an infinite number of odd numbered rooms, and so an infinite number of new guests can be accommodated.”  (www.logicalparadoxes.info)

        If one understands this concept, the hotel can have an infinite number of rooms full, as well as an infinite number of rooms empty. It makes no sense and does not work in the real world. Infinity is a paradox. A paradox is a self-contradictory and false proposition of any person, thing, or situation exhibiting an apparently contradictory nature. God is non-contradicting and is not a paradox.

        The Universe is not infinite because it had a beggining and at some point down the line all of the causes traced down through time and history can be attributed to one great cause that had no cause: God Almighty. Atheists do not want to submit to logical sense when it comes down to discussing the origin’s of the Universe, so will always try to avoid such ideas when arguing; but you can use this if you run into a typical athiest college student who thinks he knows everything.

        God Almighty is timeless and eternal!

 References

                (2009). Logical Paradoxes. Logical Paradoxes: Hilbert’s Hotel. Date
                                 accessed, February, 5, 2011. http://www.logicalparadoxes.
                                 info/hilberts-hotel/.

25 thoughts on “God Is Eternal, Infinity Is A Paradox

  1. I could ask you the same for your Eternal God. Your just using a different word that means the same thing. Eternal without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal ): eternal life. Eternal is tying the existence of something to a time period albeit the never ending infinity of time. But lets just say a word does not exist or is unknown to you and me to explain something that exists outside of our laws of time and space, and that this thing is responsible for creating the universe and the laws that govern it. There is still no evidence to support the theory that this thing is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere present. Infact if your God exists outside of time then how can he be everywhere present, it exists outside of the box.

    I admit there are many things we don’t know, but that’s no reason to make it up without knowing, telling people to live and act a certain way. Just because you say so. It just seems to me that someone made it up to make themselves feel better, which I understand, but now we’re in the 21st century, people are free to explore the possibilities themselves without being limited by old fashioned jibber jabber.

    • Wrong. I am not simply using a word that means a different thing. I see you have looked up the word eternal in the dictionary and pasted it on your message. The definition you posted does not say anything about temporal or being involved in time. You are just adding your own opinion to a word in order to force in your agenda. The words eternal and infinity are not the exact same meaning. As my article states, infinity has to do with starting at a point and going in one direction forever. Eternal has no beginning or starting point as it always existed. This concept is hard for you to accept since you are a being that has a beginning that was caused by something. God is the uncaused cause.

      The universe had a cause, something outside of nature and the universe caused it. Time had a beginning and a cause, whatever created time exists outside of it. And just because this cause exists outside of time does not mean it (He) cannot act within time or through time. Only an eternal being could be omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.

      The evidence is logic: Everything has a cause, the universe had a cause, whatever caused it did not have a cause. There is no such thing as infinite regression and this possibility is a paradox.

      Nothing I said in my article was made up but was based on logical reasoning and facts about infinity and eternity.

      Try again mr. atheist! And if people are free to explore possibilities themselves then they have the ability to choose or not to choose to read my article and make their own decision. Your little claim at the end about being free to explore also applies to you and nothing I wrote on my blog has captured anyone’s thinking to only allow them to agree with me. Your statement is completely irrelevant. Go back to your Richard Dawkin’s book, it seems as though you enjoy science fiction more than philosophy.

  2. Simple, then when did God begin? It is really silly to think you can’t have an eternal or infinite universe or god. They are both a type of paradox … God is what is not now measured … we have not been able to measure the universe. Eternal is what is eternal and infinity is what infinity is. Who created God … If you believe he always was even before time … is that not a paradox.

    • You seemed to have missed the entire point of the article. What you said makes no sense. The article I wrote states that God is eternal. Asking “When did God begin” has nothing to do with the claim. Eternal means never beginning and never ending, but always existing. So you want to say our Universe with planets, stars, galaxies is eternal and always existed and never had a beginning? Science disproves this by showing the Universe had a cause and began at some point in the past. What was the cause of the Universe? God caused the universe. God is the uncaused Cause. Think it over…

          • So you admit God exists? Cool. Thanks. The concept of the Christian God in the Bible is eternal. Look it up. I don’t need to prove it. That is like me saying you believe the universe is eternal so you need to prove it. But we all know science proves the universe to have had a beginning. Everyone knows this. I am simply claiming there was an uncaused cause that caused the Universe to exist. Why can’t that be God?

  3. I would say the author of the article does not explain the concept of the eternality of God properly. If you say that God is only eternal because he had no beginning, then you just play with words and it means the same thing as infinity and you still submit God to the concept of “before” and “after”. God is timeless, which means these concepts do not apply. If he created time, then he did not exist billions of years ago, or quazi-gigalions years ago, but he just exists now, with no before and after. Of course, he did not appear “in the past” since if it was the case, this would apply the concept of time on him and he would therefore not have created time. Any being that created time must necessarily have always existed. If you say he is timeless, do not apply the concept of time on him. You will just confuse atheists and they won’t understand you.

    • I would say you do not understand the concept of God, and the words “eternal” and “infinite.” Nothing I said was playing with words, you simply just have a misunderstanding of the definition of eternal. You are simply nitpicking. I do not know if you are a Christian or an atheist or whatever but you are simply nitpicking. Infinity and eternity are not the same thing as explained in the article. Please re-read it and address the claims I made.

      God is timeless and created time, but He also entered into time and works through it. This can be seen in different theophanies such as the person of Jesus Christ who grew up as a man, the Holy Spirit actively working in different times in history as well as God the Father speaking to humans in different times. God is omnipresent (everywhere present) at all times. God created time and works within it to accomplish His will. God may work inside of time but He is not bound by it.

      Many apologists would explain the concept of God the way I have. Also, atheists are confused by their own willful ignorance and willful unbelief. Nothing I said would confuse them more than they already willfully do themselves. You seem to be willfully nitpicking my article. Are you an open theist?

  4. Obey, bow, owe your life to an unfathomable ‘other’ – astounding how people see the beauty in this, but will poo-poo believing in that same energy/god- whatever you wish to wish to call it, could be evolving itself through all forms, to know the experience of life, etc. I’m sure this sounds utterly absurd to the author of this article, but that’s ok, as my intention was not to offend him or challenge his belief, just to say you can have an an idea of god that isn’t outside nature but within- simply put, all life, not just sentient, could be an ever evolving by product of that consciousness. I’m not an atheist, but I do have a problem with some of the common things religion will imply about god and our relationship to him/it. Why would a perfect being who cannot tolerate imperfection create beings who are imperfect by nature, and set the rules in opposition to their instincts? Not talking about obvious cause and effect wrongs/destruction, I’m talking inability to accept any mistakes/free thought/etc without egregious payment and suffering to pay for existing and the ability to even make mistakes in the first place… I’m no more knowing than anyone, save for what know and feel in my life experience. Guess I’m open to many interpretations/possibilities than are usually observed/discussed…

    • You talk like a naturalistic pantheist.
      There is also no proof of anything you have just said either about your idea of god being the universe or all life and not beyond it.

      You ask a good qustion about why God creates things that end up sinning. Read my article ‘God Does not Create Evil.”

      Also isnt it great we have free actions we commit and are not hooked up to a machine full of bliss and good stuff only, but we have the ability to behave how we want?

      Also God is a God of justice as well as mercy. How can justice or mercy be displayed if no one rebels in the first place? God would have just created a program that does not drift off course, but instead we have our own minds and do things. But yes it is within God’s overarching control.

  5. Pingback: Is God Eternal? Is God Transcendent? | The BitterSweet End

  6. Pingback: Atheist Blogger’s Illogical Argument About God’s Eternality | Ehud's 18 Inch Dagger

  7. As I read your conversations, I am brought back to my childhood when my big question was “Where did God come from?” That questioning began when I was about 4 or 5. The problem with that childhood question was that I assumed that there was a time when God did not exist. It was actually in high school physics that I answered my own question by realizing the fallacy of my false assumption. There has never been a time when God was not. Our finite minds cannot comprehend the infinite or the eternal. We can discuss these concepts and realize that these concepts are the only possibility of existence, but we cannot wrap a finite mind around them.

    Whether or not one believes in God, one must admit the existence of eternity. If we set a point as to when there was an all-encompassing beginning, then we must be faced with the question of what was there before that beginning. Eternity – no beginning, no end – there always has been and there always will be. This concept helps my understanding of God, but does not become, by itself, the basis for my belief in God.

    When I think of the earth being held in orbit by the balance of the gravitational pull of the sun and the centrifugal force of the speed of its orbit in a perfect combination for human existence, I can’t believe that that was an accident .

    When I see a medical diagram of the tendons, muscles and organs of the human body in such unique harmony and variety, I can’t believe that there was not an Intelligence behind such amazing perfection. When I think of the human brain of gray matter that is capable of creative thought that surpasses all computers, could I be naive enough to think that it accidentally occurred?

    Or the fact that we believe in good and evil? What makes one thing good and another evil if we are just accidents of evolution?

    But even beyond all this, my belief in God is based on a force outside myself that changed my life over 45 years ago and has continued to work in my life ever since. This is all just a drop in the ocean of the reasons why I believe in a personal God Who is involved in all of His creation.

  8. I have one objection. God is formless and changeless. If God is not infinite, then he as a deFINITE form. A finite thing requires space in which to distinguish its form, and God is outside Space-Time. Infinity is the only possible formless, changeless concept. As an example, you couldn’t have an infinite penguin because a penguin has a definite form. In the real world (Space and Time) Infinity is paradoxical, but with God, anything is possible. The reason we can’t comprehend God’s ways, the reason we can’t visualize Him, is because He is infinite. God is Eternal Infinity.

  9. “The prohibition of images is a statement about the utter transcendence of God, for to make an idol to represent God is to reduce the infinite to finitude. Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, and Taoism affirm the ineffability of Ultimate Reality in their assertions that no words or intellection can properly convey its nature. It is beyond all duality, e.g., all attempts to think of it as a “thing” separate from other things. Its nature is emptiness.”
    http://www.unification.net/ws/theme003.htm

    I know the last sentence may offend, but God is a concept, not a thing. That said, a concept can exist in emptiness.

    John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word… and the Word was God.”

    The English term “Word” comes from the Greek “logos” meaning “Logic; Reason.” God is, Himself, the concept which brings all reality into being Now.
    The concept? Eternal Infinity

  10. whitedragonawa, nice job yeah bash the college student atheist. You said the science says that our universe has a cause, infinity is from a point, time point rolling forward forever. Consider this: ‘our’ universe / the big bang, may be the product or cause of a black hole in another universe, not ‘ours’ that gathered enough matter so that on the ‘other side’ our universe’s big bang happened. And our universe contains tons and tons of black holes, and at the other side of these can be at certain ‘times’ other ‘big bangs’ leading to other universes. This my friend is infinity. Sure there is cause and effect. In infinite and limitless time and space, maybe there was no cause or origin, perhaps it just ‘is.’ This to me is infinity – you and I and the rest of humanity at this point do not know the answers, oh and you say people like me think we “know everything.” In fact, quite the opposite, I admit I know very, very little, though to quite frankly offend you now, I would say you probably know less than me, but of course you ‘know’ God more than me, right. As far as I see, each human has their own conception of God or a higher power or a lack of one. And we influence each other and nature influences us as we influence nature (though recently we’ve been more destroying it). Although we as humans have developed this ability to think and question, maybe it is a curse for some, I could count myself among this lot, and really we are simply bound to debate while we pass up the essence of ‘God’/ life / energy / higher power / infinity. Perhaps animals are ‘closer’ to ‘God’/ life/ etc…. because they are not ‘limited’ by our self-acclaimed ‘higher’ thinking and intellect? ….There, enjoy this late night blabber and soak in how infinitestminimally small we are within ‘our’ universe that we/scientists know of, and the universe you believe in, and/or the actual universe/bounds or no bounds of time/space that really exist:)

  11. infinite number of empty rooms is possible, but to have an infinite number of full rooms you need an infinite number of guests. a finite number of guests mean a finite number of full rooms yes? very hard to grasp. I have a hard time understanding infinity because all human symbols of it show infinite return. if infinity has a beginning and doesn’t repeat, than its not infinite?

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